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Down shifting while driving 22RE


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So I'm getting used to driving Grannie now. Auto transmission. Got back from the hill country in Southern Ohio and my rig slowed so much going up hills I found myself manually down shifting to 2nd gear frequently to keep the engine from bogging down before it would down shift to 2nd itself. No OverDrive engaged. Recent complete tuneup including timing, plugs, cap rotor, wires, new vacuum hoses & valve job. The works! Fuel filter replaced. Is this normal for the 4 banger? On steep hills she would even down shift to 1st! I can't imagine climbing the Rockies. I would be in 1st gear the entire climb. I know these engines like to rev but what kind of mileage would I get in 2nd gear? No over heating while in 2nd.  Any damage that could result in running in 2nd gear for a long stretches to maintain 55 MPH or even 30 MPH? What do you 22RE folks do? Thanks!

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Get a tach, the red line on a 22RE is 5750 rpm. It will run at 75% of that (4300) all day long. Sometimes on rolling uphill sections you will need to leave it in 2nd and use the throttle to keep the rpm right.  I went over 8000ft passes in 2nd and 12,000 ft passes in 1st

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I manually downshift to second all the time and keep it there going up to Tahoe or Reno. Letting it go to 3rd just means I will slow down again and need to get it back in second. I don't have a tach but your just fine in second up to about 50mph. Much faster than that and mine yells at me. At 50 I am passing big rigs. One place very steep it gets down to 25mph but hey guess what, thats the speed limit there.

Linda S

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That's nice to know that 4300 RPM is good to go all day long. I have been thinking that 3400 sounds really "speedy" but I do see that redline mark at 5750. With a tach and the new 4:88 rear end I will get a little bolder on my next trip.

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Hearing & Learning from the "Experts"! Thanks for responding!

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Two bands in a 22RE engine first torque at lower RPM then HP at higher RPM so higher rev's to climb the hills the little engine has a very big job to do but it is capable.

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The peak power on a 22re is at 4800 rpm. So climbing at 4-4300 rpm lets you rev it up a bit more to get around a 18 wheeler and then drop back to your climbing rpm.

For those tachless folks redline in 2nd gear is 75 mph, 4800 rpm is 62mph and 4300 is 57 mph, with a standard 4.10 rear end.

With a 4.56 4300rpm is 51mph and with a 4.88 its 48 mph.

So if your used to a American V-8 going up hills at 2500 rpm, yea it seems as your Toyota is screaming. And just for giggles there were a zillion Toyota P/U in CA with 4 speeds being driven at 75 mph for ever (3750 rpm)

Edited by WME
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IMO, a tach is unnecessary. With the 22R and auto, I use 30/50/70 as max speeds in 1,2,3 gear. Sounds like this is still a long ways from redline, but why bother?

Also, when in hilly areas it is a good idea to downshift before you have to. For instance, lets say you come a fairly steep hill in 3rd. If you let your speed drop off until it downshifts on its own, it will have a tough time pulling the speed back up. If you manually downshift somewhere around 40-45, you will be right in the meat of the torque curve and it will hold 2nd with a very light throttle and even accelerate. With experience you will know when it is best to just keep a light throttle and let it spin rather than clawing your way back to third, only to have it fall on its face again. On the really step stuff, the same applies for 1st/2nd gear. I learned this pulling Tioga pass going into Yosemite from the east. It would not hold 2nd, but would pull 28 mph in first without breaking a sweat. As for mileage and general overall engine/tranny health, you will learn to drive with a light foot and generous use of the OD lockout and downshifting. Leaving it in OD and letting it lug is a bad idea.

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the power to weight ratio is pretty poor in these toys.  The V6 have an "ECT" button that changes the shift schedule to give more power.  think it advances the timing a little too. The 4cyl guys pretty much explained  it.  I do the same in my V6 without quite as high revs. 

If you have an automatic tranny be careful about tran fluid heat - tran fluid is hydraulic fluid  - if you google the heat issues you will see that you can fry a tran very very quickly.

 

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I truly appreciate your responses! I'm learning to drive my rig and wasn't sure about down shifting, revs, etc. What a Helpful Forum!

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I have been all over the Rockies and the only 2 times that I had any concerns at all were going up the west end of the Beartooth Highway and going up the BigHorn Mountains from the west on Highway 14a.  Both times I made it ok but the engine started running a little warmer than normal.  

I installed a tach to know what my rpm's are but it is not an absolute necessity.  I just like to know.  

Heading toward Mount Rushmore from Rapid City on Highway 16 there is a spot at that edge of town with a stop light at the bottom of the hill and then a looong steeep section of road.  My wife asked me why I stopped at the light in the left lane and not behind the dump truck and semi.     When the light turned green, I limped off the line (still faster than a dump truck) and ran the engine up to 4800 rpm's in first and second gear.  I actually got to pass trucks going up hill.  I am easily amused.

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I just posted something over here today June 6th about downshifting with the new 4:88 rear end on a trip I just returned from

 

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On 2017-05-28 at 5:29 PM, markwilliam1 said:

So I'm getting used to driving Grannie now. Auto transmission. Got back from the hill country in Southern Ohio and my rig slowed so much going up hills I found myself manually down shifting to 2nd gear frequently to keep the engine from bogging down before it would down shift to 2nd itself. No OverDrive engaged. Recent complete tuneup including timing, plugs, cap rotor, wires, new vacuum hoses & valve job. The works! Fuel filter replaced. Is this normal for the 4 banger? On steep hills she would even down shift to 1st! I can't imagine climbing the Rockies. I would be in 1st gear the entire climb. I know these engines like to rev but what kind of mileage would I get in 2nd gear? No over heating while in 2nd.  Any damage that could result in running in 2nd gear for a long stretches to maintain 55 MPH or even 30 MPH? What do you 22RE folks do? Thanks!

I notice that this discussion is leaning heavily on the concern of the engine... Sure, these little engines will handle the RPM'S  with ease, BUT, think about your transmission..................    E.g., in second gear your planetary gears are spinning appro. 3 times faster than your engine RPM/S...  &  the pinion's in the planets are spinning  a LOT faster than that with lube that is not supplied by direct pressure (splash only).    WHERE AS in 3rd gear your planetary gears are at rest...  not under load..  IN 3RD GEAR you are connecting your input & output shafts together...   this is the BEST gear to run in for the transmission...   I would suggest looking into a 4:88 gear change  for many reasons, most importantly ==  for the life of  complete gear train ,,  engine & trans...  and you will like  the road feel ....   fuel mileage   ???????????.................your call.........donnie

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I appreciate that Donnie but there's no way I could afford switching to 4.88. I know that's the best option! I haven't heard of anyone ruining their transmission running in 2nd gear but I'm new at this. Just trying to learn how to drive it properly. I have to downshift to maintain speed on an incline or the engine bogs down then the transmission downshifts itself trying to catch up which it can't do. I think that causes more harm to the engine. It's like a catch 22 but I'm no mechanic! 

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Wear on gears on an automatic is minimal, its normally the clutches and bands that wear.

By down shifting the rpm may be higher but the torque load is reduced....Keep shifting. :D

 

 

 

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Sweet! Thanks WME!

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On 2017-05-28 at 5:29 PM, markwilliam1 said:

 Any damage that could result in running in 2nd gear for a long stretches to maintain 55 MPH

This is what  MY REPLY was addressing.......from the ORIGINAL question ! ! !...Have you ever seen a blown planet??...

Running 55 mph in 2nd gear will NOT hurt  ANY of the friction materials... wear on the friction element's  happens during the time when the trans is shifting..  more wear on the up shift than on the coast downshift...But I would advise against running 55 mph for extended periods of time  in 2nd gear.......... that was the original question................... thus my reply .................donnie

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Donnie, you've got me somewhat confused. If I understand your large, bold font, you're against running at high(er) rpms in 2nd gear yet you're also advocating installing a 4.88:1 gear. About the only way I can rationalize this is to assume you think the 4.88 will allow more use of 3rd gear.

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Lets see

worn friction....yep, hard to tell if its abuse or just normal wear in an overloaded transmission

crispy fluid.... yep, using O/D, bad maintenance, overloaded transmission, questionable cooling

worn output bushing...yep, marginal design and big overload

blown planetary ....nope, sorry in my limited Toyota 43D experience haven't seen this.

The 22R/a43d combo is border line marginal when you put a 4000b house on its back and try to drive 5500lb+ in the hills at "normal" speeds. Most of the long time owners have upgraded the transmission cooling, installed temp gauge and drive by the gauge more than the speed limit.

I'm not saying to use 2nd @60 mph, when you can use 3rd, but climbing a 10,000 ft pass you better manually shift to 2nd OR even 1st and feather the throttle. 

P.S. I live in WY and there LOTS of 10,000 ft passes to go over

Edited by WME
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On 5/28/2017 at 5:29 PM, markwilliam1 said:

So I'm getting used to driving Grannie now. Auto transmission. Got back from the hill country in Southern Ohio and my rig slowed so much going up hills I found myself manually down shifting to 2nd gear frequently to keep the engine from bogging down before it would down shift to 2nd itself. No OverDrive engaged. Recent complete tuneup including timing, plugs, cap rotor, wires, new vacuum hoses & valve job. The works! Fuel filter replaced. Is this normal for the 4 banger? On steep hills she would even down shift to 1st! I can't imagine climbing the Rockies. I would be in 1st gear the entire climb. I know these engines like to rev but what kind of mileage would I get in 2nd gear? No over heating while in 2nd.  Any damage that could result in running in 2nd gear for a long stretches to maintain 55 MPH or even 30 MPH? What do you 22RE folks do? Thanks!

   to WME : before you start lecturing me on the processes' & procedures' of automatic transmissions, I suggest that you look at some of my earlier posts on TRANSMISSIONS.     My advice was to Mark William, the original post in this thread= he asked about running   55 MPH on the hi-way..for extended periods.. I advised against it....   THAT'S ALL, no other implication's.........NONE                    my reply was to answer HIS  question................. donnie

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Thank You Donnie for your input also! I really don't have much choice driving in 2nd for long stretches if I want to maintain 55 on the highway and I'm going up a long incline. 3rd won't cut it! I'll never afford a 4.88 rear. There has to be many 22RE owners who run for extended periods of time in 2nd. After all I live in Ohio where we have some long "hills" but nothing like the mountains out West! I could imagine running in 2nd out there for hours @ a time! How bout it you Western folks?

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Nope out west here and I don't try to keep it at 55. The Big rigs aren't going that fast. Can't think of any hills anywhere that would take hours. I'm not comfortable driving too long in second with it screaming at me. I also keep second top speed at about 50. What's your hurry. I know people say the other drivers give them dirty looks if they drive too slow. Never have I experienced that. I stay to the right or on smaller roads pull over at turnouts. Driving itself is all about making constant adjustments. Best to be flexible about your expectations. You'll still get there

Linda S

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I'm not in a hurry anymore Linda I'm retired! One of the reasons I got Historical plates on my rig was for other drivers to understand I'm driving Slow for a reason. @ 55mph people fly by me like I'm sitting still. All the big rigs zoom past also. I've never passed anyone yet LOL! Just trying to be safe on the Interstates so really can't go any slower than 55. On back roads I could care less! You are correct about the constant adjustments!

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23 hours ago, Derek up North said:

Donnie, you've got me somewhat confused. If I understand your large, bold font, you're against running at high(er) rpms in 2nd gear yet you're also advocating installing a 4.88:1 gear. About the only way I can rationalize this is to assume you think the 4.88 will allow more use of 3rd gear.

Derek, I was writing a fairly long post, but forum timed out on me..  Should use Word. To the point, I am only against running 2nd gear at hi-way speeds on flat ground for extended periods of time. Yes down shift when it is called for.... Your rationalization is correct.........a lower gear ratio will allow the use of 3rd  & 4th gear when before the 4:10 would not allow it

If you re-read my previous post on this subject.. I DID include the original question from  markwilliam in the quote.. Sorry about the use of the large font,   If it is offensive..I will not use it  ..donnie

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I go less than 55 often. What exactly do you think is going to happen. They rear end you. Maybe if you were driving a Fiat that no one can see but even though were small we are still tall. I think I mentioned this already but the road to Tahoe which is an interstate, US 50, there is one point where 25 is my max. It's also the speed limit there. I'm only obeying the law

Linda S

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You did mention that Linda. I don't want to ever get rear ended though. I'm talking an Interstate highway that has a speed limit of 75.

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No I didn't realize that. Thought she said the speed limit was 25. Thanks!

 

 

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1 hour ago, markwilliam1 said:

No I didn't realize that. Thought she said the speed limit was 25. Thanks!

 

 

No the Maximum speed limit on this steep curvy section of Highway 50 is 35 mph. I was wrong but still slow. Had to google road and see the sign. And yes I can keep my camper at 35 here. Some of the big rigs are going slower. It is a US highway but not an interstate with on and off ramps. Fastest speed limit in California is 70 and most freeways are 65.

Linda S

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Donnie I don't think we are arguing, but saying the same in different words. As I read the original post it is about long climbs in the mountains, not not running 55 in a 55 zone in 2nd gear in the flats.

Around here there a bunch of long climbs in 1st and 2nd AND a bunch of long descents in the same gears.  Flat lands is the highest gear possible

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That's correct WME!  Long clImbs. Won't run 2nd on the flats.

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